Vinemont Town Hall, Scouts Clash Over Future of Town’s Scout Building

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Dustin Isom
We’re trying to make the best decisions we can, based on the facts that we have. That’s how we operate.”
Vinemont Mayor J.D. Marcum

VINEMONT – Tension and emotions ran high at this month’s South Vinemont town hall meeting, with town and Scout leaders disagreeing over the future of Vinemont’s Scout building, located at 88 Ridgeway St. At issue is ordinance 2016-01-01, which names the building as the new home of South Vinemont Town Hall and the site of all municipal business and meetings. The ordinance passed a preliminary vote 5-1 at the meeting and will go to a final vote on Feb. 9. Councilman Radginal Dodson was the only one to vote against the move.

The town has already removed one wall to enlarge the only room that South Vinemont Mayor J.D. Marcum said will be off limits to the Scouts and locked. They have also taken one-half of the storage space in the building and removed a number of Boy Scout signs and markings. Scout leaders contend that the town is kicking them out of the building that was built solely for their use. Marcum says that the Scouts are free to use any of the rooms in the building, outside of the one locked room.

“We had to remove everything off the walls Scout-related. We even had to cut the emblems off the inside doors,” said one Boy Scout leader.

A Girl Scout leader said, “The Girl Scout room was torn down two days after we were told about this. Any pictures or posters or anything with the Scout logo has been removed. No history whatsoever has been preserved.”

The “Scout House,” as it’s been known in the community for more than 20 years, has up until very recently been home to Boy Scout Troop 227, Cub Scout Pack 227 and Girl Scout Troop 10288. It is a large, log cabin-type structure that was built by Scout volunteers with purchased and donated materials on property belonging to the Town of South Vinemont. Its official name is the Cary C. Montgomery Scout Community Center. It is named in honor of long-time Troop 227 former Scoutmaster and current Committee Chair Cary Montgomery.

Montgomery and Jim Oden, Troop 227’s current Scoutmaster, declined to comment for this story.

Marcum said that the reasons behind the move are that the Scout House will provide more room and is handicap-accessible, where the current town hall is not. He said, “I don’t see why we can’t share it. The town paid for the building to be built. The boys use it four times per month and the girls two times per month. Rather than building a new building and putting the city in debt…I think it will be better for them (the Scouts). We are trying to make the best decisions we can based on the facts we have. That’s how we operate.”

Marcum said the town plans to lease the current town hall after the move, in an effort to bring in money. He says that the town pays for all of the maintenance at the Scout House, from cleaning up after Scout activities to taking care of the grounds, which are approximately 2 acres. He stated that the town also pays for all of the utilities.

“We are trying to avoid raising taxes,” said Marcum. “This will save the town money. I’d love to meet with them, the (Scout) leaders, and walk through this building. We’d also like to use the building for senior citizen meetings sometime in the future.”

“Last night (Jan. 12) in the town meeting, we were told that the Boy Scouts would be allowed to continue to meet there and that no one was “kicking” them out. The Girl Scouts had a spokesperson, and he presented a request to the council to continue to meet there, but nothing was approved or even discussed among the council about the status of the Girl Scouts in that facility,” said concerned resident Katie Loyd.

The specifics of the original agreement between the Scouts and the town are the point of biggest contention between all parties involved. The Scouts believe that there was a lease giving them the property for $1 per year, for a period of 99 years. No copies of this agreement could be located by the Scouts of town officials.

Loyd continued, “My son did use the Vinemont Scout Center from about 5 or 6 years old until he was 18. He began as a Tiger Cub Scout and went on to obtain Eagle. I have not ever seen the original documents, but I was told that (former Mayor) Mr. Elton A. Hall, that assisted with getting this built, had a contract that stated the Scouts could use the building for 99 years for $1 a year. Now, the Town of South Vinemont cannot find the documents and are wanting to move the Town Hall into the Scout building. The girls have already been made to vacate their room.”

On Sep. 13, 1990, then-Councilwoman and future Mayor Melba Patton made a motion, seconded by Councilman Calvin Cadle and approved by all, in the monthly town hall meeting, “to support the Boy Scouts Troop 227 by leasing them a small parcel of city property for their use in erecting a building providing the proper piece of property can be agreed upon, and a lease agreement can be reached.”

CullmanSense obtained the original lease on file at Vinemont Town Hall, a notarized document that was signed on April 11, 1991 by then-Mayor Elton A. Hall and Troop 227 Scoutmaster Gary N. Powell. This document states:

“This lease is for a period of ten years commencing on March 1, 1991, with the first yearly payment of $10.00 and other valuable considerations, due on or before March 1, 1991, and nine consecutive yearly payments thereafter beginning March 1, 1992, in the amount of $10.00 and other valuable considerations, with the final payment due on March 1, 2000.”

The document goes on to list other points agreed upon, including: description of the property; that the property cannot be subleased for any other purpose besides supervised youth activities; that the lease includes the option to renew for another 10-year period at the end of the current term; that the Lessor approves the erection of a building and that it “will be donated to the Town of South Vinemont upon completion by Mr. Del Brock and will be included as a part of the lease;” that upkeep, repair and maintenance are the responsibility of the Lessee; that “on termination of the lease, “the Lessor will then obtain possession and ownership of all permanent structures and improvements;” that the Lessor is not liable for anything that happens on the property; that the club and any activities there are not the responsibility of the Lessor; that the Lessor must keep the premises clean, mowed, maintained and visually-appealing; that the property is “being leased for the sole use of the Boy Scout Troop 227” and that any default on any provisions in the lease will make the lease null and void. A full digital copy of the lease can be obtained from CullmanSense.

Construction of the Scout House by Brock and other volunteers began in April 1993. In January 1994, Brock, according to town hall minutes, reported that construction was on schedule and that the Scouts had borrowed $40,000 to help with the project. In May 1994, the council approved a transfer of $25,000 to the Scouts to help complete the building. In October 1994, according to town hall minutes, Brock and Cary Montgomery (for whom the building is now named) reported that the building was being used by 40 children, with 100 expected within the month. Additional expenses, including lighting and heating/cooling were discussed, and the Scouts stated that they had applied for grants, but still owed $65,000 to the bank and $2,500 to D&S Building. On Oct. 19, 1994, a special meeting was called, in part to discuss helping with the completion and debt against the building, in the amount of $30,000. On Nov. 9, 1995, Mayor Hall discussed a dinner to retire the Scout’s $60,000 debt. On March 14, 1996, a motion for the town to procure a loan to retire the debt on the building was made and passed.

Over the years, the Scout House has also been rented out to the public for occasions such as weddings, family reunions and community singings. The outside area is also used by the Vinemont High School marching band for practice.

John Roy, who was appointed to speak to the media by Girl Scout Troop 10288 on its behalf, said, “Do I feel the Town of Vinemont has the right to do this? Yes, through legal loopholes I believe what they are doing is legal; however, I do not believe it's fair or just.  I understand if the Town of Vinemont needs to narrow its budget.  But, that is not what this is about. When you look at the amount of money the town makes off the sports complex (and) add to it the fact they intend on renting the old town hall after they move…it’s all greed, not the need to narrow a budget.

“At the (January 2016) council meeting, Mayor Marcum made the statement they needed to move because of the town hall is not handicap-accessible, but the Scout House is, and they needed more room than the town hall has,” Roy continued. “They are moving to a smaller space (than they occupy) and outside of the town hall (Scout House) not needing a ramp to enter, it is not ADA-compliant, the bathrooms are nowhere in compliance, there is only fire exit from the upstairs. So all of these things will have to be in compliance, which costs money.

“The town also stated that there were only a few Scouts that even lived in the Town of South Vinemont. In a population of a little over 700, there really isn't (sic) going to be that many eligible to even be in the Scouts, but, in my opinion the very fact that you have kids traveling from West Point, Falkville, Eva, Jones Chapel to be a Vinemont Scout should be praised, not condemned,” Roy said. “So everything that Mayor Marcum has said only takes away from the integrity of his word.  It is not about needing extra room, it’s not about narrowing a budget and it’s not about being ADA-compliant. It is about greed and status. What happens when the town decides it needs more space? They just push the Scouts out altogether, that's where it leaves the Scouts. 

“I am not angry at the mayor or the town council, but more than anything I am ashamed of them and their attorney (Roy Williams) for how the decision was made, legal or not,” Roy said. “Cary Montgomery and the Scouts built that house, not (Mayor) J.D. Marcum or any member of the town council.  I will end with this: I have never had a Scout lie to me. It used to be that a Scout’s honor was all they needed. A politician, on the other hand, always has an agenda. The Scout House is just that. The name says it all. The town should be investing in the future of these young citizens rather than pushing them away, but I suppose you learn far more from poor leadership than you do good leadership, for it is then that you see exactly how not to lead people.”

The Town of South Vinemont and the Scouts have been heavily involved since the construction of the building, with the relationship becoming somewhat strained over the years. Records show that in November 2001, the town council discussed concerns over renting the Scout House and that the current rentals did not even cover the monthly utility costs of the building. There was also frustration because the town believed the Scouts were not properly maintaining the property or doing enough community services projects. It was decided that the council would, as the Scout’s charter organization, appoint a new Scout Master and Troop Committee, all from South Vinemont. This led to additional unrest between the Scouts and the town council. In 2002, many of the town council’s meetings were devoted to Scout business, with many Scout leaders concerned over dwindling numbers and the fear of the programs going away.

Town hall records show a complex relationship between the groups over the years between 1990 and today. All records are available digitally from CullmanSense.

The Town of South Vinemont was the charter organization for the Scouts up until Nov. 10, 2015, when, after 22 years, the council passed Resolution No. 2015-11-10-01, severing ties with both the Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts, effective Dec. 31, 2015. Oden’s Glass is the new charter organization.

The next Town of South Vinemont Council meeting is scheduled for Tuesday, Feb. 9 at 6 p.m. at the current town hall. Ordinance 2016-01-01 is expected to pass, but it will most certainly not be without a fight.

CullmanSense will continue to follow this developing story. All documents related to this story, including all lease agreements recovered, are available digitally from CullmanSense as a PDF.